What is Mayweather's zero worth?


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blackrican23

Mayweather isn't just a number, and his '0' alone can't prove his greatness

 

You could still see flashes of greatness as Sugar Ray Robinson fought his final fight -- a feint here, a pivot there, an occasional well-placed jab. But on that chilly November night in 1965, greatness flickered like an ember among the ashes of his 200-fight career, just a melancholy reminder of the beacon that once illuminated the boxing world with dazzling brilliance.

The crowd that gathered at Pittsburgh's Civic Arena to watch a living legend make his last stand gave Robinson several standing ovations. The fact that middleweight contender Joey Archer knocked the old champ down and won the decision didn't detract from Robinson's legacy one iota. It was his 19th defeat -- an unacceptable number by today's standards -- but almost a half-century later, the original Sugar Ray remains the consensus choice as the greatest fighter to ever grace a boxing ring.

 

Not everybody agrees with that opinion, of course. Muhammad Ali also gets a lot of support. Among the most vocal dissenters is Floyd Mayweather Jr., who believes it is he, not Robinson or Ali, who deserves to sit atop boxing's Mount Olympus.

"I got respect for Sugar Ray Robinson. I got respect for Muhammad Ali," Mayweather, who faces Robert Guerrero on Saturday at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, said. "But I'm a man just like them and put on my pants just like they put on their pants. What makes them any better than me?"

Although you'll never convince Mayweather, who holds his undefeated record close to his heart, it was, in part, the losses that Robinson and Ali suffered and their ability to overcome adversity that set them apart. On some level, Floyd must know that stats alone are not the true mark of greatness, but he always falls back on his unblemished career mark when questioned about his self-proclaimed status.

"Numbers don't lie," Mayweather insisted in a recent interview with ESPN's Stephen A. Smith, who reminded the fighter that his claim to be "the best ever" was not universally accepted.

Numbers might not lie, but they sure can be misleading. As much as Mayweather cherishes the zero at the end of his 43-0 (26 KOs) record, even if he remains unbeaten for the remainder of his career, which is entirely possible, he wouldn't be unique in that distinction -- not by a long shot.

Undoubtedly the most celebrated member of Club Zero is former heavyweight champ Rocky Marciano, still a cult hero close to 58 years after the final fight of his 49-0 (43 KOs) career. Nowhere near as famous as the "Brockton Blockbuster" (but arguably a better fighter, pound for pound) is Ricardo Lopez, Mexico's breathtakingly gifted strawweight king, who finished his career with a 51-0-1 (38 KOs) record. The pair resides on a lofty plateau, high above the others who retired undefeated. A notch below are the likes of Joe Calzaghe, Lazlo Papp, and Jimmy Barry, all highly accomplished fighters without a loss between them but who aren't in quite the same league as Marciano and Lopez.

 

Then there's Saengmuangnoi Lukchapormasak, better know as Samson Dutch Boy Gym, who retired with a glossy 43-0 (36 KOs) record, including no fewer than a staggering 38 title defenses. The Thai junior bantam sounds like a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame with those sorts of stats, but when you examine his record, you discover he held the lightly regarded World Boxing Federation title and, with only a few exceptions, fought mainly obscure opponents of little merit.

If numbers are just the starting point in the evaluation of a fighter's legacy, why is Mayweather fixated on the almighty zero? Is it a way to reassure himself that he's really as good as he says he is, a salve to sooth the slings and arrows of his critics -- or something else altogether?

Part of the equation is the current boxing culture, which is almost as obsessed with undefeated records as Mayweather is. It wasn't always that way, of course, and throughout most of boxing history, as long as it was a good fight, a loss wasn't that big of a deal. True, boxers fought more frequently in those days, mainly because purses were relatively small compared to today, but a busy schedule also made it easier to move on after a defeat.

Another factor in the contemporary emphasis on undefeated records is the runaway proliferation of alphabet groups and the downgrading of the titles that has resulted from their innumerable transgressions. In an era inundated with so-called champions, the term has lost much of its significance, making a pristine record and a lofty P4P (pound for pound) rating of more consequence than ever before.

Even so, it would be wrong to consider Mayweather a captive of the times in which he fights. He is instead a prisoner of his colossal but surprisingly fragile ego, the part of him that is both his greatest strength and most glaring weakness.

 

Mayweather's mercurial personality is as difficult to pin down as the fighter himself is inside a boxing ring. The villainous persona that has helped make him today's top pay-per-view attraction doesn't really represent who Floyd is -- no more than Guerrero's conspicuous religiosity characterizes him.

Sure, Mayweather went to jail on a domestic violence beef, but he blew any street cred that incarceration might have earned him by whining about the lack of bottled water. Guerrero's appearance on "The 700 Club" with Pat Robinson, founder and chairman of the Christian Broadcasting Network, was closely followed by "The Ghost's" arrest for packing heat at New York's John F. Kennedy Airport.

The black hat-versus-white hat dynamic doesn't apply this time. It seldom does, and any analysis of what makes either Mayweather or Guerrero tick is all about shades of gray.

Mayweather's critics believe he has grown more and more cautionary in the selection of opponents as he has climbed the P4P ratings. They point to matches with shell-shocked Arturo Gatti, shopworn Shane Mosley and undersized Juan Manuel Marquez as prime examples. Then there were outclassed foes such as Victoriano Sosa, DeMarcus Corely and Carlos Baldomir whom he allowed to last the distance, rather than risk something untoward by going for a knockout.

"What [the fans] really want to see is me get my ass kicked," Mayweather said during a candid moment at an after-party following his victory over Mosley.

 

Although there is certainly a sizable segment of boxing's fan base that feels that way, it should not be forgotten that Mayweather is the first black fighter since the fall of Mike Tyson to attract a large and loyal African-American following. Moreover, the social-media war between his fans and Manny Pacquiao supporters suggests that Mayweather's brand of bravado, backed up by his marvelous boxing ability, has won favor with many.

According to self-help blogger M. Farouk Radwan, "The psychology of people who strive for perfection is easy to understand. You just need to look at the direction they are running towards and you will have a powerful clue about the direction they are running from."

Todd duBoef, president of Top Rank Boxing, recalled a trip to Mayweather's Michigan hometown for one of the fighter's early title defenses: "Floyd picked me up at the hotel and took me on a tour of his old neighborhood in Grand Rapids. He showed me where he used to live, where his grandmother lived, and even took me to the barbershop with him. He wanted me to know where he came from."

To a large degree, Mayweather's overpowering need to be the best ever is rooted in a disruptive childhood in Grand Rapids and the clear understanding, from an early age, that he was "born" to fulfill the destiny of the fighting Mayweather family.

 

He was expected to surpass his father, Big Floyd, and his uncles, Jeff and Roger Mayweather, the latter of whom held titles in both the junior lightweight and junior welterweight divisions. But despite his extraordinary success and all he has accomplished, Little Floyd never seems fulfilled.

It would be ironic if Guerrero, one of Mayweather's lesser-known adversaries, turns out to be the one who finally gives him the sort of epic struggle that virtually every great fighter must endure and triumph over. Even if Mayweather loses, it probably wouldn't be as horrifying as he imagines, and it just might provide a heretofore-unavailable opportunity: After all, it's the picking up of oneself after defeat and battling back that is the stuff of legend.

In the meantime, Mayweather could do worse than ponder the words of troubadour Leonard Cohen: "Forget your perfect offering. There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."

 

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/9241028/what-floyd-mayweather-jr-zero-worth

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blackrican23

no GRIM this isn't a money status thing its his place in boxing history , the flash cant cover that up. Nigel Collins isn't a hater , he is a historian and the reason at ONE time THE RING mag was the bible

 

I say PBF is the best OF HIS TIME but not mine. nuff said

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blackrican23

Saengmuangnoi Lukchapormasak, better know as Samson Dutch Boy Gym, who retired with a glossy 43-0 (36 KOs) record, including no fewer than a staggering 38 title defenses. The Thai junior bantam sounds like a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame with those sorts of stats, but when you examine his record, you discover he held the lightly regarded World Boxing Federation title and, with only a few exceptions, fought mainly obscure opponents of little merit.

 

 

who knows of this fighter

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no GRIM this isn't a money status thing

 

Not arguing but, Floyd Money Mayweather! The Money Team! Highest paid athlete! I understood the content of the writers article

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mexfighter

chavez should have retired the fight before randall then.  what was he at that point, 91-0?  just think about that.

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Where do rank PBF all-time in your opinion?

 

Well they way I see it Floyd has a master plan, his plan is to set a major record in boxing, he wants to be  50 |  0. Once and if he does that he beats the old record and cements his place in history. That amount of wins backed with 0 losses is a rare in boxing.

 

If and when this has been accomplished my answer to your question will be The greatest boxer of the universe  :tup

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blackrican23

universe doesn't give me a true feeling on where you rank PBF amongst the era of fighters you have seen in your lifetime. Seeing as you put a great deal in the value of being unbeaten , do you consider Marciano as currently the best in the universe? PBF can only equal his mark 

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universe doesn't give me a true feeling on where you rank PBF amongst the era of fighters you have seen in your lifetime. Seeing as you put a great deal in the value of being unbeaten , do you consider Marciano as currently the best in the universe? PBF can only equal his mark 

 

No Marciano is not considered the best or even considered by me, I was just using his record, it is not only being undefeated that I look at I also look at how, who, etc, Marciano was not a defensive genius  In order to be placed on such a high platter the boxer must posses the most skills offensively and defensively to name just a few of the attributes that contributes to.  

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blackrican23

let him tie chavez' unbeaten record then we'll talk.

feed that to the sheep , some of us know of the overturned loss, theres enuff grey area there for me to question 91-0

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blackrican23

No Marciano is not considered the best or even considered by me, I was just using his record, it is not only being undefeated that I look at I also look at how, who, etc, Marciano was not a defensive genius  In order to be placed on such a high platter the boxer must posses the most skills offensively and defensively to name just a few of the attributes that contributes to.  

so you feel PBF is the best you have seen, for he encompasses traits in a lot of different areas at a high level , which I agree with. how do you think his potshot offense would do against say Hearns or ray Leonard ? do you think it would be enough ?

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mexfighter

overturned loss?  you mean the DQ after the guy claimed he was hit with a low blow in chavez' very first fight?  blehhhhh

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so you feel PBF is the best you have seen, for he encompasses traits in a lot of different areas at a high level , which I agree with. how do you think his potshot offense would do against say Hearns or ray Leonard ? do you think it would be enough ?

 

Hearns and Leonard threw more punches indeed they are from the era of multiple punch combos. I think the pot shot technique would have cause them problems because but might not be enough seeing that they threw more punches "not that all punches landed" I think in a Mayweather vs Hearns or leonard, the punch stats would be greater for Floyd based upon less misses due to his conservative punch style. Really hard to say though, But I see Floyd beating both of them on points.

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blackrican23

Hearns and Leonard threw more punches indeed they are from the era of multiple punch combos. I think the pot shot technique would have cause them problems because but might not be enough seeing that they threw more punches "not that all punches landed" I think in a Mayweather vs Hearns or leonard, the punch stats would be greater for Floyd based upon less misses due to his conservative punch style. Really hard to say though, But I see Floyd beating both of them on points.

actually my thoughts when I posted was more on the defensive side  than that they throw more punches than PBF. Ray Leonard moved his head much to well for PBF to just try his potshot right hand and leap out, we wouldn't see that.

 

Hearns might be caught with a few more than Ray because of his height , but Hitman had a jab more than capable of  keeping PBF outta range were his height then becomes in Hitmans favor.

 

I've only seen 2 guys that can  almost guarantee they will dictate the pace of the fight EVERYTIME out REGARDLESS of style opposing them. Hopkins and PBF. Punch stats most likely would be very close in those fights

 

 I also wonder if  PBF is a big enough puncher to make Ray even respect the potshot? Sugar Ray had a  pretty good chin .....

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I can't speak to the mythical matchups, but Floyd falls a bit short of acheiving all time greatness in my eyes when compared to the other elites in boxing. 

 

I think he has fought B+ opposition, when he should have fought A level opposition.  Somehow I think he had to make the Pacquiao fight happen, but he didn't need to because he gets paid more than Pacquiao and more than anyone else because he makes fights on his terms to protect his own business interests. 

 

He is undefeated, and IMO he is the best fighter of the generation (better than Pac, DLH, better than Roy Jones, better than Lennox better than R/Lopez) but he needed to care about his legacy and go out of his way to make the biggest fights happen and he never did, he never wanted to sacrifice the business aspects. 

 

That's why his resume will fall short of the all time greats - SRR, SRL, Duran, Whitaker, Arguello, et al.  But Floyd doesn't care.. he'll tell us to look at his bank account, and shit he has a point there

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